“Winchester Cathedral, you’re letting me down/You didn’t do nothing when my baby left town.” Who sang the song? You know what just occurred to me? You know the song “Winchester Cathedral”? No. So you don’t see the civil-libertarian attitude toward gays and lesbians as being connected to the lack of faith in government in general? That’s why I want to break out of this by cutting military spending and legalizing drugs and freeing up hundreds of billions of dollars that we could then use to show them how government can be in their interest. The more they vote for people who don’t like the government, the less the government does. The more disappointed they get in government, the more they vote in people who don’t like the government. At the same time they see the Democrats and liberals caring about gay people, caring about black people. But another thing that happens is this: The critical element we have are middle- and working-class white people, who actually do believe in government as a force for good, and are very bitterly disappointed that the government has done nothing to improve their economic situation. ![]() OPEC starts this, but then it’s just technology and international trade. And then a variety of things in the world eroded the position of Americans who were not highly educated. So as people have learned that, and learned who we are, that’s just faded away. The prejudice against us turned out to have no basis in reality. I want to go back to a question that you brought up at the beginning of your book, which was: Why has the American public become so much more tolerant of gays and lesbians, for example, but so much less trusting of government intervention? ![]() And I actually think that’s devastating to try to get people involved. Unlike Bill Maher, who I think much more intelligently differentiates, Stewart almost never referred to any politician except to show what a fool she was, or he was. You watch Stewart, there were never any good guys. It’s why I didn’t join in the great praise for Jon Stewart, because I think Stewart was guilty of that. There is this worship of nonpartisanship. The Globe has this problem that a lot of middle-class, respectable liberals have, which is a fear of being seen as partisan. I thought it was bizarre that the Globe endorsed Baker, given the ideological divide between the two candidates. I will concede this-and I should have said this-I think Martha was a very good candidate this time, but the perception of her being a bad candidate stuck with her. There is, in Massachusetts, this perception that the legislature is corrupt and run by Democrats and therefore the Republicans win more often than not for governor. In fact, that Sunday night, when I was walking around shaking hands, they said, “How was she?” and I said, “She’s a lot better than I ever was.” I hated it, and I wasn’t good. Did you think she had improved at all as a politician? But the Sunday before the general election I spent with Coakley in New Bedford, Fall River, Taunton, and the cities that I represented. I stayed out of the primary because I had too many friends. But you got involved in the Martha Coakley–Charlie Baker gubernatorial election? Now that you’re out of Congress, have you ramped up your interest in local politics? I had to fight with the editor because I told him he could tell me what not to write, but I resisted his attempt to write some of it himself. Did you write it all on your own, or was there ghostwriting? Penis euphemisms and 1960s pop songs were discussed. Barack Obama and Jon Stewart were not spared the rod. After an unsurprising Barney Frank–onian hiccup-the day our interview was originally scheduled, he was in an entirely different city-he and I linked up for a wide-ranging, occasionally contentious, consistently fascinating three-hour conversation. This month, he’s publishing a memoir, Frank: A Life in Politics from the Great Society to Same-Sex Marriage. Last fall, he taught at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. ![]() But unlike many of his ex-colleagues, he has spurned the dreaded lobbying route in favor of more edifying pursuits. The rest of the time, he’s up in Maine with his 45-year-old carpenter/welder/surfer husband, Jim Ready.įrank isn’t completely retired. On my right is a disheveled, stubbled 74-year-old in a Nautica sweatshirt and black Velcro shoes: Barney Frank, the post-Congress version, at his sister’s house in Newton, where he now spends about half of his days. On my left, standing tall amid a pile of children’s toys, is a miniature basketball hoop.
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